So since Dom 3 is being discussed

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:34 am

It's Middle Age. Always pays to have an army so don't give up on the Hoplites yet.

Moreover, I generally agree that a Golem is a poor choice as an SC. Yes, they have the same slots as a human hero. But so do most Tartarians.

K · Post by K » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:51 am

Golems are one of the goto SC chassis. The fact that their only weakness is to Magic Duel is not even deal since MD kills the user as often as it kills the target.

So the trick is not to fight Astral powers.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:06 am

Golems are very very good, since they don't require anything special to teleport, making them a very good raiding force. Also, they are mindless, so no one can snag them with Charms or Control the Dead. Control is short range and costs a gem, so no one ever scripts it.

Tartarians have the potential to be better, but they are also much harder to make. 10 Death Gems, 20 Nature Gems, and the inevitable requirement of injury healing (which may take several turns). It's a huge investment and it takes Conjuration 9. Golems pop out of the oven at Construction 7, which coincidentally includes the Construction they need to be fully equipped. And every one of them can teleport with the astral beanie they were going to wear anyway. So none of them are shitty monstroms that don't pull their weight.

Yes, people on the Shrapnel forums fap to Tartarians. They do this because a Tartarian Titan with exactly the right magic pulls is one of the best SCs in the game and is nominally available to every faction. But there are plenty of answers to Tartarians and there are plenty of SCs who can accomplish as much with a much smaller outlay of resources. Golems are one of those.

-Username17

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:24 am

Ah, hadn't noticed that a Golem has a pretty decent Astral score at 2. Yeah, having each Golem able to teleport around is very good for both raiding and mobility.

What are the other good summonable SC chassis though, aside from Tarts? Elemental Royalty? Troll Kings?

And does anybody ever equip their SCs with anything beside Brands, Boosters, and Charcoal Shields?

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:46 am

Zinegata wrote:Ah, hadn't noticed that a Golem has a pretty decent Astral score at 2. Yeah, having each Golem able to teleport around is very good for both raiding and mobility.

Teleport is one of the reasons that golems are good. The other one that readily springs to mind is that they never route.

What are the other good summonable SC chassis though, aside from Tarts? Elemental Royalty? Troll Kings?

Troll kings are more useful for the earth rituals and battlemagic the bring to the table. The fact that they are costly (earth gems have plenty of other uses) and cost upkeep make them less than ideal SC. I would rather use a Banelord or a Ivy King, but they both kinda suffer from lack of strategic mobility. The non-air royalty kinda fall into this hole as well, but they have more impressive physical stats and special abilities. The blood summons and the national angelic (or fallen angel) summons are good SCs.

And does anybody ever equip their SCs with anything beside Brands, Boosters, and Charcoal Shields?

Sure. Regeneration and reinvigoration are key parts of any real SC kit. You also want high MR and luck if you can squeeze it in. Sometimes you will want something like a rime hauberk and a specialty weapon instead of a brand.

SCs have to be tailored to the opposition somewhat, you cannot have a generic SC build.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:56 am

The best summonable SCs in the game are the Seraphs and Grigori. The six winged angels of fucking ridiculousness. Those are very expensive and nation specific (Magignon, Pythium, and Hinnom), so they don't come up very much. The best deal on a summonable super combatant is probably the Rudra or the Mandaha, but those are nation specific too (to Bandar Log in both cases). For SCs that are fully available to "anyone" (at least, anyone with the research and magic paths), you get the most mileage out of Demon Lords and Air Queens. Actually, Demon Lords are generally so absurd that they are too valuable to be used as warriors, and end up being put into an artillery role instead. Blood comes through with a bunch more badassery, as Heliophagi, Ice Devils, and Arch Devils are all fucking metal. But all that shit is unique, meaning that if more than one player on the board decides to get Ice Devils, then none of them can actually field a whole set of Ice Devils. Also, each of those lists has a clunker in it - like the Ice Devil who doesn't have any fucking hands or the Heliophagus who kills population.

There aren't a whole lot of repeatable thug chasses in the game, and those that exist are often kind of surprising (Rudras are not unique just to remind you how important it is to kill fucking Bandar Log before they get their Clam Engine in full swing). Ivy Kings are surprisingly good, despite their low combat skills and inability to wear helmets. They have a lot of hit points and naturally regenerate, so equipped with some decent armor and an area weapon like a fire brand and they can seriously chop through a lot of normal troops. Golems of course can teleport as part of their normal life path, so they are great addition to any raiding force. Gargoyles are fully slottable when awakened and have no weaknesses, so GoR to them is quite a deal (though they are admittedly, hard to make for people who aren't Vanheim).

Bottom line: having someone repeat cast Tartarian while holding the Chalice is a perfectly respectable life goal. But it's nothing like the only available end game. By the time you have 6 Ice Devils, 5 Arch Devils, 4 Heliophagi, and 4 Demon Lords, the fact that there is "no limit" to the number of Tarts you can field is probably unimportant.

-Username17

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:10 pm

More generally, killing things in Dominions is actually really easy. Even basic troops have like weapons and shit (well, not Pangaean troops, but you know what I mean). Therefore, the ability to kill enemy troops is not by itself particularly interesting; what makes a good thug are two things primarily:

The ability to consistently not die while in combat with enemy troops.
The ability to get to the battle so as to start causing havoc.

You can cause all kinds of havoc by simply being tough enough to come out on top of some enemy province defense and flying. That combination is generally enough to take a province per turn from an occupied opponent which is totally sweet.

To graduate from "thug" to "Super Combatant" you have to be able to take out medium sized armies by yourself, which requires even greater levels of toughness and badassery. But more specifically, it means some way to get rid of whole armies before you route or time runs out. That means you have to bring stuff like Fear, Cold Aura, Fire Shield, and area attacks to the party. But it still mostly means that you have to be very hard to kill and supernaturally brave.

There are a number of key defensive abilities that it is nice to have, many of which can be granted by a spell during combat:

Etherealness (Astral)
Mist Form (Air)
Mirror Image (Air)
High Protection (Earth)
Energy Resistance (Water, Air, Fire, Nature)
Regeneration (Nature)

And that list, by the way, is why the Air Queens are so much better than the other elemental royalty at mass murder. That and the fact that they fly inherently and none of the royalty wear shoes, meaning that Fire Kings and Water Queens need Flying Carpets. Also, Air Queens can Cloud Trapeze and the others can't. It's really one sided.

Anyway, there are a few great mass murder abilities, some of which can be granted by a combat spell:

Damage Shield (Fire, Astral)
Chill (Water)
Heat (Suck It)
Fear (Suck It)
Area Attacks (Weapon Only)

And finally, there are a couple of abilities that are both offensive and defensive and are thus incredibly epic:

Quickness (Water)
Soul Vortex (Death)

So what this boils down to is that Sea Kings are better SCs than Troll Kings, because the Sea King can be given some winged sandals and scripted to cast Quickness and Breath of Winter and then attack rear. It also means that one in eight Lamia Queens can natively cast Soul Vortex and Quickness and can totally rip through huge armies of normal troops if they have the right equipment. Niefel Jarls (a fucking recruitable for Nifelheim) can make the same claim, and happen to also be sacred badasses with 72 hit points. But Lamia Queens regenerate really fast, and before being blessed.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:20 pm

Changed my mind about my research.

Revised turn sent...

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:56 am

Turn 22 sent

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:39 pm

Turn 23:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7yvln0qfizwvdb5

Currently, I should have 2 each of Frost Brands, Luck Pendants, and Lightless Lanterns. Also 1 Shroud of the Battle Saint and Anti-Magic Amulet. Anyone have particular preferences? Currently, I have some special items for R'lyeh and a few hundred gold earmarked for Man. Thanks to Akula for convincing me to actually start forging research boosters.

Also, if people have extra Nature and Death gems, I'd like to start site searching with some new mages I've developed, and would appreciate donations of these as much as Earth gems at this point.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:28 pm

I will say this about my current setup - my 2h files are similar in size to my trn files.

-Username17

angelfromanotherpin · Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:24 pm

Avoraciopoctules wrote:Turn 23:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7yvln0qfizwvdb5

Currently, I should have 2 each of Frost Brands, Luck Pendants, and Lightless Lanterns. Also 1 Shroud of the Battle Saint and Anti-Magic Amulet. Anyone have particular preferences?

I would like a Frost Brand, please.

edit: Be advised, all whom it may concern: Man apparently does not believe that a non-aggression pact restricts the aggressive use of either his spies or his armies. He is either dangerously insane or a blaggard, and should be treated as such.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:33 am

Ayup, I noticed that. If you have spy problems, assassination spells can allegedly solve that. Obviously, I can't help you in that fashion, though.

EDIT: Vanhiem, you have earned awesome points.

K · Post by K » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:02 am

What nation is Korwin? I need to know who to send my Fire gems to.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:07 am

Vanhiem. He just ninja'd a port province that had been taken by Ashdod, then siezed by Ermor, then got trogged in the face by the RNG. It's not adjacent to any of his provinces, and it took a moment for me to figure out how he managed to pull it off.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:13 am

Oh, good, Vanheim has access to the inner ocean. That's going to be colorful.

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:15 am

angelfromanotherpin wrote:I would like a Frost Brand, please.

Most undead are cold immune. And the damage isn't AP. But I suppose it might help against man.

EDIT: I'm also laughing at how ineffective man's bards are at actually crippling someone. The giant KoA stack is probably going to be more effective.

Oh, and: go Vanheim! Kick some ass!

K · Post by K » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:22 am

Are people actually at war yet?

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:26 am

K wrote:Are people actually at war yet?

Man and Ashdod. Invasion by Man.
Ermor and Ashdod. I don't know who started it.
Probably someone and Vanheim in a few turns, Vanheim is almost certain to start it.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:27 am

Ayup. Man and Ermor are trying to carve up Ashdod right now.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:28 am

K wrote:Are people actually at war yet?

I haven't made or received any formal declarations, but yes. Very yes.

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:30 am

I gots yahs both.

Also, if there was a lab in that fort angelfromanotherpin, you might want to have one of the commanders inside destroy it.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:48 am

So is it time to go "The lamps are going out all over Dominion, we shall not see them again our lifetimes?"

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:12 am

So, you guys remember this?

Lol, it's got 5 ankites in it. I guess if blessed superman is 'shitty' then yeah I suppose.

Well, apparently cthullu was stretching the truth, and it had 5 banshites in it. They got eaten by Ermorian PD this turn.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:31 am

Yeah, that force was basically a complete feint based on his misidentifying its composition in exactly the way he seems to have done. I had some vague hopes that once it managed to slip past his invading force it could do some raiding, but it hit a hefty defense force. Oh well.